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	<title>Comments on: Toto, I Don&#8217;t Think We&#8217;re in Tashkent Anymore</title>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://www.workingdefinition.com/2005/05/14/toto-i-dont-think-were-in-tashkent-anymore/comment-page-1#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2005 07:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=104#comment-280</guid>
		<description>matt,

I&#039;ve kind of been using computers for more years than I&#039;d like to admit to but, its not too surprising that your student use the web for eMail (it was the so called killer application that allowed researchers to communicate ideas way back in the late 60&#039;s when UNIX was just getting started).

As far as students down loading &quot;clips&quot; that is to be expected given that was the so called  killer use of the net for the masses (that is non nerds used the net to exchange music, or &quot;stealing&quot; music as the RIAA would frame the issue).

In both cases its basically the same thing an exchange of ideas and information, the web does have the potential to be a pretty good tool as ya pointed out do research and exchange ideas, like wise the web can be a pretty big was of time with lots of bandwidth going toward downloading music and porn.

From what I&#039;ve observed the problem is people in general, I mean its human nature to go for the quick buck, the shot of instant satisfaction, etc. You can expose people to all kind of interesting technology (like the web) but the fact of the matter is most people won&#039;t make efficient use of that technology. In general this idea applies in all sorts of endeavors (i.e. if someone give me a violin or some other kind of string musical instrument and I&#039;d be hard pressed to know what to do with it).  In this little antidote, hopefully over time I&#039;d take an interest in learing more about musical instruments, likewise hopefully over time people might be motivated to use the web to benefit there fellow human being.


GQ

Even within the USA there is and always will be a great diversity of adaptation in many fields like technology, and I&#039;d say that is because of $$$ and culture. Its the nature of the beast, and I&#039;d suggest that by looking at only one aspect (i.e. technology), ya might be missing something just as important.

For example I&#039;ve helped set up network for low income individuals and from what I&#039;ve seen many individuals WITHOUT $$$ could care less about technology like the web because they are trying to make a living and don&#039;t have the cultural awareness or interest to develope their ability to use technology as a tool. I&#039;ve also seen the opposite extreme, that is some geeks helping deploy community networks think every one needs to plug in 24/7 with the latest technology. 

IMHO technology is just one aspect of living a life, think of it this way there are lots of rich folks with high speed web access and 500 channel digital cable TV, who drive fancy SUVs, and I&#039;d bet that even with all that crap I&#039;d say they aren&#039;t really living life or enjoying it cause they have become slaves to those material goods. I picked up this little insight while hanging out with some pretty poor people on a reservation. These people didn&#039;t have much money, but they did have a pretty close community and time to enjoy one another company...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>matt,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve kind of been using computers for more years than I&#8217;d like to admit to but, its not too surprising that your student use the web for eMail (it was the so called killer application that allowed researchers to communicate ideas way back in the late 60&#8217;s when UNIX was just getting started).</p>
<p>As far as students down loading &#8220;clips&#8221; that is to be expected given that was the so called  killer use of the net for the masses (that is non nerds used the net to exchange music, or &#8220;stealing&#8221; music as the RIAA would frame the issue).</p>
<p>In both cases its basically the same thing an exchange of ideas and information, the web does have the potential to be a pretty good tool as ya pointed out do research and exchange ideas, like wise the web can be a pretty big was of time with lots of bandwidth going toward downloading music and porn.</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve observed the problem is people in general, I mean its human nature to go for the quick buck, the shot of instant satisfaction, etc. You can expose people to all kind of interesting technology (like the web) but the fact of the matter is most people won&#8217;t make efficient use of that technology. In general this idea applies in all sorts of endeavors (i.e. if someone give me a violin or some other kind of string musical instrument and I&#8217;d be hard pressed to know what to do with it).  In this little antidote, hopefully over time I&#8217;d take an interest in learing more about musical instruments, likewise hopefully over time people might be motivated to use the web to benefit there fellow human being.</p>
<p>GQ</p>
<p>Even within the USA there is and always will be a great diversity of adaptation in many fields like technology, and I&#8217;d say that is because of $$$ and culture. Its the nature of the beast, and I&#8217;d suggest that by looking at only one aspect (i.e. technology), ya might be missing something just as important.</p>
<p>For example I&#8217;ve helped set up network for low income individuals and from what I&#8217;ve seen many individuals WITHOUT $$$ could care less about technology like the web because they are trying to make a living and don&#8217;t have the cultural awareness or interest to develope their ability to use technology as a tool. I&#8217;ve also seen the opposite extreme, that is some geeks helping deploy community networks think every one needs to plug in 24/7 with the latest technology. </p>
<p>IMHO technology is just one aspect of living a life, think of it this way there are lots of rich folks with high speed web access and 500 channel digital cable TV, who drive fancy SUVs, and I&#8217;d bet that even with all that crap I&#8217;d say they aren&#8217;t really living life or enjoying it cause they have become slaves to those material goods. I picked up this little insight while hanging out with some pretty poor people on a reservation. These people didn&#8217;t have much money, but they did have a pretty close community and time to enjoy one another company&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: GQ</title>
		<link>http://www.workingdefinition.com/2005/05/14/toto-i-dont-think-were-in-tashkent-anymore/comment-page-1#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>GQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2005 18:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=104#comment-278</guid>
		<description>The other interesting thing to consider re: IREX that American company sponsor of computer technology in Uzbekistan is that there are plenty of poor rural American kids without computer access.
&quot;Rich people and those living in the big cities here have much greater access, and those who don’t don’t.&quot; This easily applies here as well. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other interesting thing to consider re: IREX that American company sponsor of computer technology in Uzbekistan is that there are plenty of poor rural American kids without computer access.<br />
&#8220;Rich people and those living in the big cities here have much greater access, and those who don’t don’t.&#8221; This easily applies here as well. <img src='http://www.workingdefinition.com/WP2/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MATT</title>
		<link>http://www.workingdefinition.com/2005/05/14/toto-i-dont-think-were-in-tashkent-anymore/comment-page-1#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>MATT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2005 13:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=104#comment-277</guid>
		<description>I was interested by your post, ben.  At my maktab, the computers and the internet has been provided by IREX, which is a US agengy.  So, the short story is, were it not for IREX, this school would have neither computers nor internet, like most maktabs in this country.  Which is rotten, because the kids in more rural areas are just living without internet.  Considering that Uzbekistan has been developed, (although the infastracture sucks we can manage a 50.6 k connection here,) it is present.  But the money hasn&#039;t been put into that.  I mean, why would a repressive government work to increase peoples&#039; access to information?  So your digital divide between the havs and the have nots operates on a smaller level within country.  Rich people and those living in the big cities here have much greater access, and those who don&#039;t don&#039;t.  So whereas altruistic motives may motivate some companies to do the right thing, end user implementation is severely lacking.

BTW, the kids at my school use the internet for two things - one is email with freinds.  This is good as it is a form of information exchange.  The second is to download clips of popular songs.  This is simply a waste of time.  Its a double edged sword for sure, but with more education about HOW to use the internet and better education of English speakers, the good will soon outweigh the bad here.

~Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was interested by your post, ben.  At my maktab, the computers and the internet has been provided by IREX, which is a US agengy.  So, the short story is, were it not for IREX, this school would have neither computers nor internet, like most maktabs in this country.  Which is rotten, because the kids in more rural areas are just living without internet.  Considering that Uzbekistan has been developed, (although the infastracture sucks we can manage a 50.6 k connection here,) it is present.  But the money hasn&#8217;t been put into that.  I mean, why would a repressive government work to increase peoples&#8217; access to information?  So your digital divide between the havs and the have nots operates on a smaller level within country.  Rich people and those living in the big cities here have much greater access, and those who don&#8217;t don&#8217;t.  So whereas altruistic motives may motivate some companies to do the right thing, end user implementation is severely lacking.</p>
<p>BTW, the kids at my school use the internet for two things &#8211; one is email with freinds.  This is good as it is a form of information exchange.  The second is to download clips of popular songs.  This is simply a waste of time.  Its a double edged sword for sure, but with more education about HOW to use the internet and better education of English speakers, the good will soon outweigh the bad here.</p>
<p>~Matt</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://www.workingdefinition.com/2005/05/14/toto-i-dont-think-were-in-tashkent-anymore/comment-page-1#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 May 2005 21:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=104#comment-274</guid>
		<description>laughing out loud eh? Over the past few years, I&#039;ve seen that people have had discussions about my post on UZ, and it seems that every year or so new uzbek exchange students that reach college level have their own take on my little story (kind of along the same lines that I added about a year after was there)

http://www.phaster.com/unpretentious/view_of_uzbekistan.html

so your school (maktab) has net access? if ya get a chance there is was a story on night line this past week on how much china has changed in the past 30 years... 

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/

it&#039;s kind of interesting seeing film 30 years ago of teachers picking cotton, kind of what was happening when I was in the land of UZ a few years ago.. I hope in a few years to get back to that part of the world to see how things change, I think that would be interesting to see what my impressions would be of that area in 25 years and post them.

btw speaking of net access, here is an idea that I think would be kind of neat in that part of the world, community wifi networks. I&#039;ve been kind of helping out a group of nerds that like the stuff and we&#039;ve been wiring up affordible housing projects here in San Diego. I&#039;ve even built a few nodes my self for my own buildings in the neighborhood

http://www.phaster.com/golden_hill_free_web/


ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>laughing out loud eh? Over the past few years, I&#8217;ve seen that people have had discussions about my post on UZ, and it seems that every year or so new uzbek exchange students that reach college level have their own take on my little story (kind of along the same lines that I added about a year after was there)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phaster.com/unpretentious/view_of_uzbekistan.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.phaster.com/unpretentious/view_of_uzbekistan.html</a></p>
<p>so your school (maktab) has net access? if ya get a chance there is was a story on night line this past week on how much china has changed in the past 30 years&#8230; </p>
<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/" rel="nofollow">http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/</a></p>
<p>it&#8217;s kind of interesting seeing film 30 years ago of teachers picking cotton, kind of what was happening when I was in the land of UZ a few years ago.. I hope in a few years to get back to that part of the world to see how things change, I think that would be interesting to see what my impressions would be of that area in 25 years and post them.</p>
<p>btw speaking of net access, here is an idea that I think would be kind of neat in that part of the world, community wifi networks. I&#8217;ve been kind of helping out a group of nerds that like the stuff and we&#8217;ve been wiring up affordible housing projects here in San Diego. I&#8217;ve even built a few nodes my self for my own buildings in the neighborhood</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phaster.com/golden_hill_free_web/" rel="nofollow">http://www.phaster.com/golden_hill_free_web/</a></p>
<p>ben</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.workingdefinition.com/2005/05/14/toto-i-dont-think-were-in-tashkent-anymore/comment-page-1#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 14:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=104#comment-269</guid>
		<description>Matt, that&#039;s a fascinating sum-up of the history in Uzbekistan, and well written too. It looks like Uzbekistan is in some pretty formative years right now, and the country could go anywhere. I wouldn&#039;t want to see Uzbekistan turn into Iran, but the outright suppression of all religion isn&#039;t doing it any good either. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

I remember you said in one of your earlier posts that the kids you are teaching are quite literally the hope of the nation. At the risk of sounding like a self-satisfied foreigner, I think a lot of the hope the kids themselves will need is going to have to come from outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, that&#8217;s a fascinating sum-up of the history in Uzbekistan, and well written too. It looks like Uzbekistan is in some pretty formative years right now, and the country could go anywhere. I wouldn&#8217;t want to see Uzbekistan turn into Iran, but the outright suppression of all religion isn&#8217;t doing it any good either. Talk about a rock and a hard place.</p>
<p>I remember you said in one of your earlier posts that the kids you are teaching are quite literally the hope of the nation. At the risk of sounding like a self-satisfied foreigner, I think a lot of the hope the kids themselves will need is going to have to come from outside.</p>
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